Initial problems

[ned78]

Hey guys

Gigged the Pro for the first time this weekend, and I died on stage. I couldn't believe how crap everything sounded. I made the terrible mistake of setting up my sounds at home using a set of closed headphones, and plugging into my stack. Everything sounded superb through phones, and completely the opposite through the poweramp and 4x12.

Don't make the same mistake I did! I'm at home tonight with the 4x12 trying to come up with some half decent sounds.

My other problem you guys may be able to help with, was the SUB XLR out. I took a feed from this straight into our Dynacord Powermate 1000 desk, and it clipped the channel all night. I had the gain to nothing, and it still clipped. Apparently, there's no way to modify the level on the SUB XLR, anyone got any suggestions?

Cheers!

Owen.

[aerial7]

ned78,


Apparently, there's no way to modify the level on the SUB XLR, anyone got any suggestions?

Hmmm, dunno -- manual p.17, lower-left says "The output from the Sub Out XLR connector is set at a fixed level, regardless of the position of the Sub volumne knob". Under "Nominal Output Level", p. 106, it says "Sub out XLR: +4 dBu".

I'm not an audio engineer, but perhaps the board was misconfigured for a mic-level input and instead got this hotter signal? (I'm probly wrong but I'm also too lazy to look it up, but aren't mics like -20 dBu?") Anyway, this would explain the clipping.

For my non-gigging purposes, I prefer the 1/4" Sub Outs for this very reason. I can control the volume from the knob on the front of the Pro, and so far my setup wouldn't benefit from XLRs improved noise-handling.
Plus, my recorded signal comes from the USB out, so I wouldn't care about a little bit of noise / interference on the Sub out -- that's currently only for my power amp (tech21 PowerEngine 60).

[aerial7]

and I died on stage.

Oh, and very sorry to hear about that -- I can't imagine how horrible that feels. If it's any consolation, at least you "died" doing what ya love. :D

[rcknrllmn]

Gigged the Pro for the first time this weekend, and I died on stage. I couldn't believe how crap everything sounded. I made the terrible mistake of setting up my sounds at home using a set of closed headphones, and plugging into my stack. Everything sounded superb through phones, and completely the opposite through the poweramp and 4x12.


Ugghhh. What a nightmare. I feel for ya man, sorry to hear that.

I've learned the same lessons through experience. First I feel 8O , then :oops: , then :evil: then :( .

Hence I abide by this-

As a general rule, I never make a major rig change & gig on it without at least a few full volume rehearsals with the band to work out the bugs & fix patches. I like to go through almost every song that I would use a different patch on. I always find that when I program patches alone or at low volume they need re-tweeked after getting a feel for them with full band at stage playing levels. I never use phones for programming, as they always sound different to me. I only use them when I don't want anyone else to hear me.

[piing]

Sorry about your experience. :(
I lived a similar problem the first time I gig with my Roland VG-8. The sound from the PA (direct connection) was completely different from what I programmed at home. Since that day I always use Full Range Speakers, that means: WYHIWYG (What you hear is what You get).

At home I use my Alesis studio Monitors, and for live I use a couple (or sometimes only one) JBL EON-15 amplified full range monitors. :idea:
¿What is the point of using simulators if you are already using a guitar amp/speaker? Go full range and you will be able to faithfully simulate all kind of speakers and amps.

Cheers,

Manuel

[aerial7]

they need re-tweeked after getting a feel for them with full band at stage playing levels

So, do this stage-ready patches work at bedroom levels or for direct-recording?

Also, does anyone have any philosophies for creating patches? I can't decide whether it's best to try to come up with a SINGLE patch with the versatility to work for rhythm and lead (with / without SOLO boost), or whether one is really better off just creating dedicated patches for each application.

And while I'm here: What do people think about the 8/Pro's ability to setup a "system preamp", where one preamp setting is used for all patches? Would seem to be more like a real amp, and is probly the way most of us think about this stuff -- we tend to focus in on one particular amp model, I think. Wouldn't work real well, of course, for a cover band needing a range of tones, but how many of us are doing that?

[rcknrllmn]

pingfloid is absolutely correct. I think consistancy of your rig is vital. You cannot expect a 4x12 to sound like full range or phones without some type of compensation & patch adjustment.


So, do this stage-ready patches work at bedroom levels or for direct-recording?

Well, sometimes, or at least it's a good starting point. To be honest I have not done that much direct recording with these units. We've done all our recording basically live with mic's & gone & done overdubs.

When creating patches I usually think of someone elses tone I think I would like mine to be similiar to. Get familiar with the gear they use & use that as a starting point for forming a patch. I don't use the concept of a system preamp because I like to change sounds alot. That was a feature of the GP-100 & I found it limiting. You can do more with the PRO now because of the different amp channels & ability to add a DIST/OD to them which the GP-100 couldn't. For simplicity for someone who doesn't like to do alot of programming that mode would be great & just use manual mode & your set, -just like an amp with a bunch of effects pedals to kick in & out.

[ned78]

Much to the dismay of my ageing mother, I setup the 4x12 in the living room tonight and proceeded to dial up some patches. Much better, and I'm looking forward to the two weddings I'm playing later this week.

What we need now is a library for our own patches. When I sold my Pod this year in anticipation of being able to pick up a pro immediately, I bought a Behringer V-Amp Pro to stop fill the gap 'til the Pro. As cheap and nasty as the unit was, there was a user library on Behriner's Website, and some truly beautiful tones. With the resources we have now, we could sure use something like that. While I'm sure I can create a sound that suits me, as with anything, there are many more experts out there, much more capable than me, and I'd love to have access to other people's tones.

Owen.

[aerial7]

What we need now is a library for our own patches.

I was JUST thinking the same thing, although in a different sense.

Of course, there's the patches in the 8 forum. Can't use them, you say? Well,write Mr. Sleepy (author of the GT-8 editor) and tell him you're a Pro looking to try 8 patches and that aerial7 sent ya.

Despite just turning knobs in an alchohol-induced state of distraction, I think I did get a decent patch last night. Reminds me of the tone of Pat Benatar's husband-guitarist, who I think had one of the tastiest distortions ever, dirty but not over-the-top and very controllable. I'm not saying it SOUNDS like him, just that it's more that style..... I'll post it here in a little while. I suspect everybody will hate on it because I'm using the WORLD'S BEST GUITAR (for me) -- an Ibanez-styled Squier Strat. :P

[rcknrllmn]

Despite just turning knobs in an alchohol-induced state of distraction, I think I did get a decent patch last night. Reminds me of the tone of Pat Benatar's husband-guitarist, who I think had one of the tastiest distortions ever, dirty but not over-the-top and very controllable. I'm not saying it SOUNDS like him, just that it's more that style..... I'll post it here in a little while.

Please do post when you can. I really dig Neil's tone back from the early 80's. It had a nice texture, clean & biting at the same time. We cover some Benatar in my & my wifes band.

[rcknrllmn]

Much better, and I'm looking forward to the two weddings I'm playing later this week

Good to hear. Good luck on your upcoming gigs.





Much to the dismay of my ageing mother, I setup the 4x12 in the living room tonight and proceeded to dial up some patches.

I really hate when someone is around when I'm dialing in patches. It's not like your playing a song or something. I hit a few chords, doodle with a few licks, then dial knobs. Repeat this process about 500 times. I feel like they think you're just making a bunch of noise, & wondering why you have to do it at deafening volumes. But you really are accomplishing something.

[aerial7]

Please do post when you can. I really dig Neil's tone back from the early 80's.

Well, I was going to until I decided to try all my great tone thru phones.

It stinks without the spkr sim -- almost useless. :cry: :cry: :cry:

I guess my PE60, although "full-range" and "neutral" isn't neutral for my studio; its EQ is still factory-flat.

So I need to start over, with my new approach, but this time using phones.

[rcknrllmn]

Well, I was going to until I decided to try all my great tone thru phones.

It stinks without the spkr sim -- almost useless. Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad

I guess my PE60, although "full-range" and "neutral" isn't neutral for my studio; its EQ is still factory-flat.

So I need to start over, with my new approach, but this time using phones

This is why I'm almost completely convinced that a full range monitoring system is the way to go. When I got my PE-60 I felt even though it is supposed to be "flat" it didn't sound "flat" to me. So far my Yamaha monitors are pretty true to monitoring patch sound to recorded sound.

[aerial7]

When I got my PE-60 I felt even though it is supposed to be "flat" it didn't sound "flat" to me.

Yeah, it's quite strange -- but this is why I'm not sure what sorta speaker(s) to use when creating my tone. Part of the PE60 is unquestionably colored by that open-back cab. Today I ran some CD tracks into it -- stuff I knew really well so I had a good sense for how it should sound. For a single speaker (no horn), the PE60 does well, but I found that I had to keep riding its EQ as I threw different stuff at it. I finally gave up, and now I'm trying to make it "match" the guitar sound I hear in my phones.

<sigh>I just wanna rock -- no wonder I don't. :lol: