GT-Pro, Rack Amp - Questions

[ElGringo]

I must say I am pretty excited about the new GT-Pro. I have been using a GT-3 for a good while now and never felt the GT-6 did enough to warrant the upgrade, but now with the GT-Pro, I can see so much potenetial.

Even though I have been playing for a while, I must admit I am pretty ignorant when it comes to some equipment setups. Since I have been looking at the GT-Pro, I have been looking at Amp options.

Right now, I basically just plug my guitar into my GT-3 and then out into the input of my Fender Princeton Chorus amp. I want to go with a bit bigger setup, so I am looking at the GT-Pro coupled with a Mesa Boogie 20/20 tube power amp into a speaker cabinet.

Here is my question. What is the purpose of a preamp in this setup. In looking at the 20/20 documentation, they suggest using a preamp and the effects attached to its effects loop and then into the 20/20. On most of the reviews I have read on Harmony Central for the 20/20, it seems they all have preamps in their setup.

So does the preamp just offer more power/volume to the signal or is it used solely to color the sound? I am guessing if I use the amp sims on the GT-Pro, I really do not need a pre-amp?

Any info you can provide, would be greatly appreciated.

Also, from other reading, it seems like I will be able to control the GT-Pro with an FCB1010 floorboard, albeit through some Midi programming of the FCB1010.

Thanks!!

[Nik]

The preamp is 90% responsible for your sound. The GT-Pro amp sims make it, itself, a very versatile Preamp with built-in effects.

[sir]

Hi ElGringo,

what cabs are u going to use with the Mesa Boogie PA? My friend bought the Road King and connect it with two Marshall 1960 (A+B), however the sound was not good. He is now ordering the new Road King cab...

Sir

[ElGringo]

Hi ElGringo,

what cabs are u going to use with the Mesa Boogie PA? My friend bought the Road King and connect it with two Marshall 1960 (A+B), however the sound was not good. He is now ordering the new Road King cab...

Sir

I am actually online looking at that right now. Seeing what my options are.

I currently have a Fender DT-412 that I picked up a while back, but have never got an amp to push it. I may use that initially, but I am looking at the Behringer BG412S, so I can take advantage of a stereo signal without two cab's.

[sir]

Duno. Cos most of us using Marshall cabs. It is not very expensive and u can get a nice Rock/metal sound from it. However, boogie is something different, I mean it sounds so big, Marshall cabs just can't handle its power. Anyway, I am sure GT-6/8 sounds good with a nice PA.

[ElGringo]

Here's my next question. I am looking for a wireless for my guitar to mount in my ultimate dream rack system I am building in my head here. Of course, money is always an issue. In my looking around, I see VHF and UHF systems.

It seems that UHF is better than VHF since they cost more. Is there that much of a difference? I guess from TV influence, I would think VHF is better than UHF.

Any recommendations on which way to go with this? Thanks!

EDIT
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Actually did some searching on the subject and so far it seems that the real difference is interference and that there is less chance for interference with UHF since it is not used as much. But if anyone else has any insight, I'd appreciate it!

[devilboy]

I'd say check out the recto cabs (either size depending on your taste - std is looser and bassier; trad. is tighter and brighter) and steer clear of the behringer cabs. Don't discount the influence your cab and speakers will have on the signal chain.

I haven't used any of the wireless systems, but a friend of mine went through several of them trying to find one that doesn't suck tone too badly...he kept spending more each time and, last I knew, had decided it wasn't worth the cash to get one that sounded clean enough.

On the power amps, consider the amount you want it to influence your tone as well. Something like the 20/20 will have an earlier breakup, less headroom and color you tone more (for the volume) than a bigger amp. You'll also notice and appreciable difference in tone from one power tube type to another.

[sir]

I once saw Vai on stage and his wireless system was down and almost terminated his show.

I bought a Nady wireless system in the mid 90's, it upset me as it's not very stable. And I have to turn my vol at least half way up in order to transmit the signal that really limit my playing...

[DIRTEEMONKEE]

Marshall 1960s cant handle power 8O 8O 8O

[sir]

Actually, u can run your Boogie Road King with the 1960 cabs, but it sounds weird. Too much high mid making the sound very uncomfortable to hear. We have tested it on different guitars, from gibson to fender. Finally, a cheap Mexico Fender sounds the best with the King which indeed surprised us.
The owner of the Road King finally decided to order the Road King Cab from Boogie. We hope the King will restore himself to his regality :) .

[Laskyman]

ElGringo-
I use a Mesa 20/20 with a Genz Benz G-Flex 212 stereo cab. I use a GT6 (GT-8 is on the way!!!) and this set-up is the best I've ever heard for the 6. I cant imagine how cool it would sound with the GT-Pro! I went through a few amps, both solid state and tube, before finding this power amp/speaker cab combination, and really couldn't be happier. The 20/20 isn't ridiculously loud, but I feel its power is seriously under-rated. It is worth youe time to check it out if you have a Mesa dealer close by.
Laskyman

[Crunchyriff]

I mean it sounds so big, Marshall cabs just can't handle its power.

yeah right.... :? PFFT!

You've got to consider a number or parameters with speakers (and cabs); and the type of amplification used.

One thing that I think many are overlooking here is that with this amp modeling craze (along with speaker and cab modeling); it's (more often than not) optimum to run as 'neutral' a speaker as possible to get the right results. I mean, if you are running, say a 'plexi' model, and a vintage 4x12 cab model, all of those sonic characteristics have been dealt with in the digital realm; so to dump a modeled sound into, say, greenbacks or G12h30's (one of my favorites); it overkill, and can defeat the purpose of the EQ curve for speaker modelling to begin with. Bear with me here...

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but that's how the modeling game operates when using amp models (where 'accuracy' is concerned) live; so I think it's plausible to suggest that one may in fact get better sonic results running a GT-8 into a JC120 (or two); than to use more "signature" sounding speakers- whether they are V30's, GB's, or whatever.

Like I said, this modeling is somewhat new to me, but it seems to require a somewhat different approach to choosing speakers, than with the usual real, tube amps.

As far as Marshall cabs not being able to handle the Road King, I'd say that's a pile rubbish. It's not the cabs, it's the speakers in them. If you have the new Celestion greenback re-issues (which sound brittle compared to vintage ones); or standard 1960 G12-75's (that are brash to begin with) you have picked the wrong speakers, not the wrong cab. Something along the lines of G12H30's, Weber's british clones, or the new Eminence "greenback" clone would be a good place to start for the Road King, imho.

If you are looking for that warbly, bassy, brash, aggressive new sound: all bets are off, and your best bet is to find some EV 12L's. Celestion V30's perhaps.

Back to the cabs themselves- Bogner produces arguably the finest current "production" 4x12 cab today, and it's modeled directly after the late '60's Marshall 4x12 cabs.

What on earth is this Road King subject doing in a GT forum, anyway? :idea:

[Nik]

Hmmmm...
There may be justification for using the GT-8 with guitar cabs/speakers, but the sophistication of the GT-Pro shoudl definitely be partnered with a pair of decent PA speaker cabs.

[Crunchyriff]

There may be justification for using the GT-8 with guitar cabs/speakers, but the sophistication of the GT-Pro should definitely be partnered with a pair of decent PA speaker cabs.


That's kinda my assumption as well, yet the promo material I have suggests the GT-PRO is ready for "a wall of cabs". Seems like most the programs are written with recording/board use in mind to a large degree; but I hardly think that's the intention of the BOSS engineers. There may well be a number of banks written specifically for live use through an amp(or amps); but knowing BOSS/Roland's proclivities in years past, they usually come up with a bunch of strange stuff that dictates you do a LOT of digging, tweaking and re-programming to get workable sounds for real-world use.

Much of this with the GT-8 might be mitigated by some simple tweaking of the amp models themselves, to apply the right EQ curve and so forth for running into a guitar amp with guitar speakers. One would hope so.

If not, you have two roads to choose:

Either get very neutral 12" speakers for your guitar cabs or get PA speakers....

or

Be prepared to do much tweaking before you can use it live through your amp.

I just don't know enough about it yet to know which is the case.

Kewl, what say ye, being as you have the GT-8 already? Any wisdom, and firsthand experience with the GT-PRO?

[sir]

As far as Marshall cabs not being able to handle the Road King, I'd say that's a pile rubbish. It's not the cabs, it's the speakers in them. If you have the new Celestion greenback re-issues (which sound brittle compared to vintage ones); or standard 1960 G12-75's (that are brash to begin with) you have picked the wrong speakers, not the wrong cab. Something along the lines of G12H30's, Weber's british clones, or the new Eminence "greenback" clone would be a good place to start for the Road King, imho.

If you are looking for that warbly, bassy, brash, aggressive new sound: all bets are off, and your best bet is to find some EV 12L's. Celestion V30's perhaps.

Back to the cabs themselves- Bogner produces arguably the finest current "production" 4x12 cab today, and it's modeled directly after the late '60's Marshall 4x12 cabs.

What on earth is this Road King subject doing in a GT forum, anyway?

Thanks, you have given me some valuable info. We are not the salesmen at the musical instruments store, it is not possible for us to check and see what cabs make the best sound from which amp or gear. So it is good to learn something from those experience guys like u. In Hong Kong, it is not common for a guitar player to install a new speaker unit into the cab himself. In fact, I duno where I can get so much choices to buy, too.
Anyway, I think it is worthwhile to talk about the amp or cab in the forum, most of us got a GT, but we dun listen to the sound only coming out from the headphone output. Therefore, Amp and Cab are always an important issue to talk about in this forum.

[Crunchyriff]

Anyway, I think it is worthwhile to talk about the amp or cab in the forum, most of us got a GT, but we dun listen to the sound only coming out from the headphone output. Therefore, Amp and Cab are always an important issue to talk about in this forum.


Ya got me there, brother! I agree within that context. :D

I myself am one of those "idiots" who would prefer to use the GT-8/GT-PRO with a tube guitar amp instead of active full-range PA speakers...that is, if I can get it sounding right.

[Absolute_Zero]

Hey Crunchy, don't take offence :) whatever works for you, right?

But many here have tried actives and won't be going back. If you get the chance to try some good-uns in a real-world situation [Mackies are highly regarded] without having to fork out the $$$, you should give it a try. For the full-on experience.... ste--reo, it's huge. You never know, it *might* work for you too.... there's only one way to know.

[Crunchyriff]

I'm not the least bit offended, bruddah!! No harm done. :P

As far as running 'stereo' goes, I ran two full stacks in stereo for years before going to a "wet(left)-dry(center)-wet(right)" rig. It's nice to hear, but in most cases, the audience can't tell- it's only for your own ears onstage.

I finally got away from both formats and now strictly runo 'mono', and have three amps: one each for clean, mean and scream.

[DIRTEEMONKEE]

Yep and you already know more than most salesman at these stores!!!!.....unfortunately people put there faith in these people...and get screwed most of the time, do to there lack of expiernce.....so protect yourself, get knowledgable and go tell them what you want.....rant over my .02 :P :P :P

[Crunchyriff]

Yep and you already know more than most salesman at these stores!!!!

This ain't my first picnic bro! I'll admit to complete ignorance on a number of things (including gear issues); but I have in fact learned a bit in over 30 years of playing. I guess that fact I'm learning still, is a good thing! This BOSS GT forum is a classic example. I've avoided this stuff like the plauge- but it's time to step onboard and embrace the technology and make it work FOR ME.

Ironically, I've learned more about gear in the last 10 years about gear, than in the previous 20. I wish it were the opposite- I'd have saved tens of thousands of dollars.... :cry:

[Perdikament]

[ I'd have saved tens of thousands of dollars.... :cry:

Ain't that the truth...but I'm glad I did otherwise I wouldn't know what I know now...an expernsive education but a worthwile one in the long run. :D

[DIRTEEMONKEE]

[ I'd have saved tens of thousands of dollars.... :cry:

Ain't that the truth...but I'm glad I did otherwise I wouldn't know what I know now...an expernsive education but a worthwile one in the long run. :D

Its not my first picnic either.....but I ve paid good money to attend a few :cry: :cry: :cry: ......cause of bullshitting salesman that either didnt know what they were talking about or just out and out lied for the sale....sooner or later we all make the transition to fx and modeling or get left behind with substandard tone.....I avoided for years cause I was comfortable with Digi rp series and new it inside out......but the time came when they brought out the Gnx series to step up and bite the bullet.....this forum has been great!!!! in overcoming the learning curve.....not to mention the bent camraderie :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: ......(checks out Perdi!!!!)

[Crunchyriff]

sooner or later we all make the transition to fx and modeling or get left behind with substandard tone

I can guarantee you that my two marshalls and Traynor rig don't take a back seat to ANY modeling rigs in the tone dept. Quite the opposite, and I'd be a liar to say otherwise.

Where these new tools shine is the portabilty, and flexibilty and less hassle from an "amt of gear needed to make this happen" standpoint.

These is nothing in the GT-8 that can equate with either of my vintage Marshalls OR my Roland SDE3000 (an industry-standard Digital Delay made in 1985 that STILL rules the roost) from a pure tonal quality standpoint. Period.

That being said, it doesn't render the GT-8's contribution and validity 'moot' by any sense of the word; and in fact, brings more options and functionality to the table than my vintage amps (and rack rig) can offer. That, and it offers a reasonable representation of the amps and cabs it models.

[DIRTEEMONKEE]

Your not gonna get an argument from me on that point Crunch :P.....but your Traynor and Marshalls don t come with all the stomp box features that the 8 does either....was where I was goin with it....yes I use the amp models......no they don t sound like a real Plexi, Bassman, or Soldano etc....I prefer the tone of my Marshall.....but none of these amps come with these :P

Extreme Effects
Forty-four effects categories are built into the GT-8. Up to 13 effect blocks can be used simultaneously to create complex textures and routings. All of your FX bases are covered — compressors, reverbs, choruses, EQs, COSM-modeled wahs, and much more.
:P

[Crunchyriff]

And that is one of the beautiful things about the GT-8!

[DIRTEEMONKEE]

Youd be suprised the number of dudes on the board that use it solely as stomp box function.....it trimmed my pedals from a dozen to 1 plus the 6 :P

[Crunchyriff]

Exactly.

Right now my Digital Music Corp GCX switching sys is giving me a few hassles, and to be fair, it's 10 years old now. Zero problems until now. But with various stompboxes, 3 rack FX processors, etc...all those connections are susceptible to problems.

If I split the GT-8 into two, run all the 'front end' stuff into, say a DSL, and the time-based stuff into the loop, and VOILA! :D

[devilboy]

at the risk of back tracking and sounding simple...all of this talk about dealing with the eq curve of guitar speakers vs flat response vs the speaker emulation; how about just turning off the speaker model?