USB-Interface: only an "unworthy" interace?

[Ash-Zayr]

Hello

I am going to make homerecording along with my GT-Pro. My plan was to go out by SPDIF into my soundcard, an X-Fi music.

But all the same, so far I use the USB-Out for work with the editor of course, and also I already made first footsteps by using the GT-Pro as the PC audio-soundcard and to record some solos over backing-tracks with Audacitiy. So I came to the idea to use the GT-Pro just without an addtional USB or PCI interface as the only sound-unit in the PC, then via USB.

But recently I heard somebody saying, that the USB interface is just for datas to enable the GT-Pro to communicate with a PC to make things like the GT-Pro editor possible. But it is not suitable to transport the music-signal to a recording source.

Ähhmm.....isn't it nonsense? Isn't a USB a full valid digital way of transporting datas streams of any kind, just digital? Is there any aspect of "quality" in comparism USB out or SPDIF out from the GT-Pro? Digital is digital, only "1" and "0"....

Ash

[Music123]

As far as I know it's not a problem to record audio through the USB. I have done it various times until I got sick of the limitations of USB.
It's better to use the GT-Pro SPDIF into your X-Fi.

[Ash-Zayr]

Well, the point maybe the "limitations of USB" you are talking of...but what are these exactly? Bandwith cannot be a problem....the GT-Pro or any audio-device of that kind does not give out such an amount of data, which USB could not handle in time, right? What else? Quality of connection? I thought digital is digital...wether the bit arrives or not...;)

[Music123]

The limitations have nothing to do with quality of the sound.
The quality is not the problem. USB output and SPDIF output have the smae quality. The limitations I encountered had to do with reamping.
If I wanted to reamp a dry signal I had to send it through USB.
Sending through USB means setting the audio driver to Boss GT-Pro Asio.
Doing that means I don't hear my drum tracks or my drum tracks are also reamped which should not be happening. To me, that's a serious limitation.
Now, if I use SPDIF I can still do some reamping but not through USB. And I can hear my drum track all the time and my drum track won't be reamped.

Also, when connecting the GT-Pro to a mixer the USB is useless.
If I use the USB the Boss GT-Pro ASIO driver needs to be set. When that driver is set the drum tracks can't be heard because they are being sent with the other ASIO driver that sends the signals to the mixer.
Now, if it were possible to use 2 ASIO drivers at the same time (and ASIO4ALL doesn't help all the time) then the USB functionality of the Boss would be a whole lot better, but alas, audio interface manufactures never thought about the possibility to use more than 1 ASIO driver at the same time.

[Ash-Zayr]

ok, I get the point, even though I am not going to work with that re-amping.

By the way: which kind of cable, or cable + adapter do you use?? As the driver fails to install under Win7 64-bit, see my other thread, I am going to forget about USB recording with the GT-Pro and to start up with my originally intented method to go via SPDIF to my creative X-Fi. But I had to learn, that there is no cable avaialble for such configuration? All worthy SPDIF digital coax audio cable have cinch-cinch plugs, but the x-Fi does not have a dedicated SPDIF input, but only that 3,5mm Flexi-Jack input, which is also the Digital Input.

Ash-Zayr

P.S.
Thanks for holding this section up by your rare visits here...;)

[Music123]

Hello Ash-Zayr

My configuration is a bit different. My GT-Pro S/PDIF output is connected to an S/PDIF input on my mixer. I just use a normal S/PDIF cable, at least, that's what they sold me once in the past. The cable is a cinch-cinch.

What X-Fi do you have exactly ? Elito Pro, Platinu or not Platinum, Titanium? What's the exact type number? That way I can look it up and see what can be done in your case.

Personally, I would say, if you have some money to spare to go look for another soundcard. I have seen lots of frustrations with people owning a Creative soundcard. Good for games, but lousy for audio were most of their comments. But before you fork over some cash, don't be in a hurry. Do some research and by all means don't go for another Creative card again. If you need info we can always discuss soundcards.


ps. I find it hard to find info about Flexi-jack. I would like to see a clear picture of what it is. Creative provides lousy information.

[Ash-Zayr]

It is a X-Fi Music...one of the very first kinds....nowadays, the whole X-Fi Range had been re-named a little bit, and what now is a "music" version is not my old schoold music version. Anyway, I am totally convinced from the X-Fi, very excellent card to enjoy very good Hi-Fi stereo sound as a listener. But also so far in my first Cubase steps, it works fine, in the audio-creation mode of the driver even with very low latency....input+ouput only about 5ms! But of course the inputs are limited....my X-Fi has no pront panel, just some common 3,5mm outputs and the 3-in-1 combined input for Mic/lin-in/dig. in (Flexi-Jack).

So I need a Cinch-to-3,5mm plug cable...or a cinch-cinch with an adapter in between...won't be a problem....;)

[Ash-Zayr]

The Flexi-Jack is just a regular 3,5mm

Ths is my card:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41QAG6AVYBL._SS400_.jpg

[Music123]

If I understand you correctly you say your Flexi-Jack offers you a digital input through a 3,5mm jack input. If that's the case your conclusion is correct. A cinch to 3,5mm jack or a cinch-cinch with an adapter should be the solution.

Thanks for posting the picture of your card. Seems to me the Flexi-jack is your savior. :-)

Good luck with it.

[Ash-Zayr]

Yes, better that Flexi-Jack than no Digitial Input at all....;)
We will see....I will keep you informed....

Thanks

Ash

[Music123]

Hey Ash

Please do let me know if it works. It's nice to know.


Thanks

[Ash-Zayr]

I had no time so far to buy the cable + 3,5mm adapter. But for the time being in finally tried the GT-Pro into Cubase via USB for the first time. I used my WinXP 32-bit as the Win7 64-bit does not recognize the GT-Pro due to lack of proper driver.

What shall I say: I was surpirsed of the very small latencey, the GT-Pro driver provides as an ASIO driver. Also playing into an Audio-Track in a Cubase Project worked fine.
In so far I have to think about going via the SDPIF at all....or at least not before learning more with Cubase and the whole recording stuff so that one day I may require new options which only the SPDIF connection allows like you described with re-amping.

Ash

[Ash-Zayr]

By the way: I recognized, when using the GT-Pro as the audio-interface in Cubase via USB, that the general project setting goes down to 44,1KHz sample rate, when before with my creative X-Fi I had set 48KHz. So it seems, the GT-Pro only allows 44,1KHZ also by going out through SPDIF by coax cable??

Well, the GT-Pro would be conntected to my X-Fi, the X-Fi is the audio device in cubase with 48MHZ and 24-bit settings, but it would not be optimal, if the GT-Pro signal only arrives in 44,1KHZ into the X-Fi.

Ash-Zayr

[gumtown]

Best to go USB direct, the signal quality is only going to be as good as the worst link, and the GT-Pro output is 44.1kHz at best.
By going analogue will result in double A/D conversion, and SPDIF is still 44.1kHz, both will add slightly more latency delay.
Set your D.A.W to save the recorded material as a 32 bit audio file or higher sample rate, to reduce quality loss from editing.

[Music123]

As far as I know the specs say that the Boss GT-Pro output it's 44Khz output and 24bits. However, why would you want to use 48Khz? 48KHz is very often only used for video. The majority of the professional recording people record in 44KHZ and 24bits.

[Ash-Zayr]

So, now after months of thinking about the right concept, yesterday I bought a PCI soundcard, which is the ESI Juli@, a quite famous card. It provides lots of "true" musician suitable inputs, like a coaxial SPDIF in. So once this card arrived and is built in my PC, I can connect the GT-Pro via SPDIF out with my new ESI Juli@ card which is the audio-device in cubase.

What I wondered about while using the GT-Pro via USB in the time being, that "what I hear" as monitor-sound is influcend by the output knob in the front-panel? In rehearsal situation it really effects the level given out to the mixing desk; and here it is only a volume control for the monitor sound?
I can get my monitor signal louder by turning it up. But is has no effect in the signal level on the guitar in the track in cubase. The only way to get more level there is to use the virtual knob for "Digital output". This option is same for USB/SPDIF I presume. I could turn it fully up and had a suitable level for the guitar. Or is is not clever to turn the digital output fully up? I had a good clear signal, no clipping as the total basic setup of my GT-Pro is clipping free in any situation due to global EQ and everything is smoothly adjusted.

Ash

[Music123]

Normal when you record a guitar track the output should be around -18DbFS This equals line level and means that the you will have the best Signal-To-Noise ratio. After the track has been recorded you can change the volume of the track to whatever suits you. In the case of the Boss GT-Pro in combination with Cubase you will have to meter the input you are getting in Cubase. Get the free Sonalksis Free G vst plugin and use that as an insert in the audio track you are about to record. That way you can see whether your incoming signal from the Boss GT-Pro is around -18dbFS.